Show Us The Documents
The following interesting exchange appeared yesterday on the "Ask Joe Klein" page of Time Magazine's website [note: I have added emphasis to key parts and my commentary appears below]:
Joe,
New documents show AlQaeda was in Iraq before we invaded, but for the sake of argument let's suppose you are right that Zarqawi and AlQaeda weren't, my question is this: "Where would he and his killers have been instead? Would they just have disappeared? Or would they be in some nation where we couldn't reach them because of sovereignity? Would have been any safer with him plotting, planning and killing somewhere else? Why does the "we created him by going into Iraq" crowd, never stop to ask these questions? Cause it doesn't fit the template or because they just don't get the threat of terrorism?
Susan Boyer Brevard, NC
JOE KLEIN: Al Qaeda was pretty much everywhere in the region before the war, but not as the active terrorist force they are today...and certainly not in Iraq. Documents indicate that Saddam had long-term, low-level ties with regional terrorist groups—including Ayman al-Zawahiri, dating back his time with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. There is strong evidence as well that elements of the Special Republican Guard ran terrorist training camps...but we could have dealt with much of that using special forces and targeted air attacks without a full frontal invasion. As for Zarqawi, why on earth didn't we hit his camp on the Iran border of Kurdistan when we could? We were told continually that Zarqawi's group was operating a chemical-weapons training facility...why didn't we take it out? The point is, there are appropriate levels of military activity that can be more effective than full-scale invasion. I'm hoping we're doing exactly this sort of thing in the border areas of Pakistan now.
Tom's comments and questions. Joe Klein's answer reinforces the need to release key documents captured in post-war Iraq to the public. Here are three areas where these documents may better inform the public on Saddam's pre-war activities:
(1) Documents demonstrating the relationship between al Qaeda's #2 and Saddam Hussein. Klein says that documents uncovered in post-war Iraq indicate that "Saddam had long-term, low-level ties with regional terrorist groups - including Ayman al-Zawahiri, dating back [sic: to] his time with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood."
On its face, this is provocative, but not surprising. Let me explain. The documents Klein is describing apparently confirm what we already know: there was a relationship between high-level members of al Qaeda and Saddam's regime. Klein's characterization of these relations is somewhat puzzling, however. How could Ayman al-Zawahiri, #2 in al Qaeda's terrorist empire, and Saddam Hussein, the number one thug of Iraq's Baathist regime, have a "low-level" relationship?
Putting Klein's characterization aside, we already knew that Ayman al-Zawahiri had ongoing ties with Saddam's regime. The 9-11 Commission, which was not bullish on the Iraq-al Qaeda issue, even said so. For example, the Commission's report noted that two meetings in 1998 (out of many) were probably set up by "Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis."
What were Zawahiri and the Iraqis talking about? The 9-11 Commission doesn't offer many details. This may be, in part, because the U.S. intelligence community did not have any good intelligence assets inside either the Iraqi regime or al Qaeda. (See, for example, the Senate Intelligence Report of July 2004.)
Another reason may be related to the Commission's choice of expert witnesses. One of the Commission's key witnesses was Michael Scheuer, who was the first head of the CIA's bin Laden unit from 1996 to 1999. I have written about Scheuer for the Weekly Standard on three occasions. (See here, here, and here.) Scheuer has said on multiple occasions that he was the one tasked with reviewing the CIA's files for evidence of a relationship between the Iraqi regime and al Qaeda. He claimed that he couldn't find any evidence in 2004, when testifying before the 9-11 Commission. But as I have pointed out several times, he found plenty of evidence of a relationship in 2002 when he published his first book, Through Our Enemies' Eyes.
This ostensible flip-flop did not stop the 9-11 Commission from unquestioningly relying on Mr. Scheuer's testimony, however. That was a mistake.
Now Joe Klein has revealed that there are more documents in Iraq detailing the relationship between Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Iraqi regime. Here are some questions for Joe Klein and the sources he relied on:
- Has Mr. Klein seen the documents? Or, is he relying on what his sources said were in the documents?
- Presumably, the documents are Iraqi intelligence documents. What is in those documents? What did Iraq's intelligence officers say was the purpose of the meetings between the two sides?
- Why have these documents not been released to the public? If there really was no meaningful outcome of these meetings, then why are the documents being kept from the American public? If the documents just report "low-level" ties, which seems doubtful on its face, then what intelligence value could these documents possibly have that would preclude their release to the public?
- The President has ordered the release of the Iraqi Intelligence documents collected by U.S. forces. These documents are being published in pdf format at the FMSO web site. Why haven't the documents described by Klein been included in this collection?
Instead of relying on witnesses such as Scheuer, it is about time the first-hand evidence collected in Iraq was released to the public.
(2) Rosters and other documents pertaining to Saddam's Popular Islamic Conferences. Per above, we know from a variety of reporting that Ayman al-Zawahiri was a regular attendee at Saddam's "Popular Islamic Conferences" in Baghdad. At these rallies, Saddam sought the support of Islamic radicals from around the Middle East during the 1980's in his war against Iran. During the 1990's, he used the conferences to drum up support against the West and, in particular, the U.S. Zawahiri even received $300,000 in funding from the Iraqi regime around the time of one of these conferences in February 1998, just weeks before al Qaeda's infamous fatwa declaring war on the West.
Other documents described by Dr. Ayad Allawi, a long-time CIA source and the first Prime Minister of Iraq, indicate that Ayman al-Zawahiri also attended one such conference in late 1999, alongside the future al Qaeda in Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The FMSO web site recently released a roster of the attendees from the Popular Islamic Conference in 1983. I will have a piece out discussing these attendees in the near future. But, at the very least, this document demonstrates that the Iraqi regime kept detailed records of those in the Islamic community who were willing to come to Saddam's anti-Iran and then anti-West Islamic summits. Questions:
- Are there similar rosters for later years?
- If so, why haven't these been released to the public? Why has only one roster from 1983 been released?
- It appears that video/audio footage from some of these events has also been released on the FMSO web site? Has all of the available evidence been released to the public?
- What possible reason could there be for not releasing such information, if all of it hasn't been already?
(3) Documents and other evidence of Saddam's Terrorist Training Camps. Klein says, "there is strong evidence as well that elements of the Special Republican Guard ran terrorist training camps..." Of course, we already knew that from Stephen Hayes' excellent reporting in the Weekly Standard. Interestingly, corroboration for Hayes' reporting on Saddam's terror training camps is coming from a source who is not at all friendly to the Bush administration or the Iraq war. This should make it even more difficult for critics to simply dismiss Hayes' reporting out-of-hand. [Full disclosure: As many of you are aware, I'm sure, I have co-written several pieces with Hayes.]
It is about time the evidence of Saddam's terrorist training camps was released to the public. More to come later, but this should give you a good start. This information should not be withheld from the American public.
Joe,
New documents show AlQaeda was in Iraq before we invaded, but for the sake of argument let's suppose you are right that Zarqawi and AlQaeda weren't, my question is this: "Where would he and his killers have been instead? Would they just have disappeared? Or would they be in some nation where we couldn't reach them because of sovereignity? Would have been any safer with him plotting, planning and killing somewhere else? Why does the "we created him by going into Iraq" crowd, never stop to ask these questions? Cause it doesn't fit the template or because they just don't get the threat of terrorism?
Susan Boyer Brevard, NC
JOE KLEIN: Al Qaeda was pretty much everywhere in the region before the war, but not as the active terrorist force they are today...and certainly not in Iraq. Documents indicate that Saddam had long-term, low-level ties with regional terrorist groups—including Ayman al-Zawahiri, dating back his time with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. There is strong evidence as well that elements of the Special Republican Guard ran terrorist training camps...but we could have dealt with much of that using special forces and targeted air attacks without a full frontal invasion. As for Zarqawi, why on earth didn't we hit his camp on the Iran border of Kurdistan when we could? We were told continually that Zarqawi's group was operating a chemical-weapons training facility...why didn't we take it out? The point is, there are appropriate levels of military activity that can be more effective than full-scale invasion. I'm hoping we're doing exactly this sort of thing in the border areas of Pakistan now.
Tom's comments and questions. Joe Klein's answer reinforces the need to release key documents captured in post-war Iraq to the public. Here are three areas where these documents may better inform the public on Saddam's pre-war activities:
(1) Documents demonstrating the relationship between al Qaeda's #2 and Saddam Hussein. Klein says that documents uncovered in post-war Iraq indicate that "Saddam had long-term, low-level ties with regional terrorist groups - including Ayman al-Zawahiri, dating back [sic: to] his time with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood."
On its face, this is provocative, but not surprising. Let me explain. The documents Klein is describing apparently confirm what we already know: there was a relationship between high-level members of al Qaeda and Saddam's regime. Klein's characterization of these relations is somewhat puzzling, however. How could Ayman al-Zawahiri, #2 in al Qaeda's terrorist empire, and Saddam Hussein, the number one thug of Iraq's Baathist regime, have a "low-level" relationship?
Putting Klein's characterization aside, we already knew that Ayman al-Zawahiri had ongoing ties with Saddam's regime. The 9-11 Commission, which was not bullish on the Iraq-al Qaeda issue, even said so. For example, the Commission's report noted that two meetings in 1998 (out of many) were probably set up by "Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis."
What were Zawahiri and the Iraqis talking about? The 9-11 Commission doesn't offer many details. This may be, in part, because the U.S. intelligence community did not have any good intelligence assets inside either the Iraqi regime or al Qaeda. (See, for example, the Senate Intelligence Report of July 2004.)
Another reason may be related to the Commission's choice of expert witnesses. One of the Commission's key witnesses was Michael Scheuer, who was the first head of the CIA's bin Laden unit from 1996 to 1999. I have written about Scheuer for the Weekly Standard on three occasions. (See here, here, and here.) Scheuer has said on multiple occasions that he was the one tasked with reviewing the CIA's files for evidence of a relationship between the Iraqi regime and al Qaeda. He claimed that he couldn't find any evidence in 2004, when testifying before the 9-11 Commission. But as I have pointed out several times, he found plenty of evidence of a relationship in 2002 when he published his first book, Through Our Enemies' Eyes.
This ostensible flip-flop did not stop the 9-11 Commission from unquestioningly relying on Mr. Scheuer's testimony, however. That was a mistake.
Now Joe Klein has revealed that there are more documents in Iraq detailing the relationship between Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Iraqi regime. Here are some questions for Joe Klein and the sources he relied on:
- Has Mr. Klein seen the documents? Or, is he relying on what his sources said were in the documents?
- Presumably, the documents are Iraqi intelligence documents. What is in those documents? What did Iraq's intelligence officers say was the purpose of the meetings between the two sides?
- Why have these documents not been released to the public? If there really was no meaningful outcome of these meetings, then why are the documents being kept from the American public? If the documents just report "low-level" ties, which seems doubtful on its face, then what intelligence value could these documents possibly have that would preclude their release to the public?
- The President has ordered the release of the Iraqi Intelligence documents collected by U.S. forces. These documents are being published in pdf format at the FMSO web site. Why haven't the documents described by Klein been included in this collection?
Instead of relying on witnesses such as Scheuer, it is about time the first-hand evidence collected in Iraq was released to the public.
(2) Rosters and other documents pertaining to Saddam's Popular Islamic Conferences. Per above, we know from a variety of reporting that Ayman al-Zawahiri was a regular attendee at Saddam's "Popular Islamic Conferences" in Baghdad. At these rallies, Saddam sought the support of Islamic radicals from around the Middle East during the 1980's in his war against Iran. During the 1990's, he used the conferences to drum up support against the West and, in particular, the U.S. Zawahiri even received $300,000 in funding from the Iraqi regime around the time of one of these conferences in February 1998, just weeks before al Qaeda's infamous fatwa declaring war on the West.
Other documents described by Dr. Ayad Allawi, a long-time CIA source and the first Prime Minister of Iraq, indicate that Ayman al-Zawahiri also attended one such conference in late 1999, alongside the future al Qaeda in Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The FMSO web site recently released a roster of the attendees from the Popular Islamic Conference in 1983. I will have a piece out discussing these attendees in the near future. But, at the very least, this document demonstrates that the Iraqi regime kept detailed records of those in the Islamic community who were willing to come to Saddam's anti-Iran and then anti-West Islamic summits. Questions:
- Are there similar rosters for later years?
- If so, why haven't these been released to the public? Why has only one roster from 1983 been released?
- It appears that video/audio footage from some of these events has also been released on the FMSO web site? Has all of the available evidence been released to the public?
- What possible reason could there be for not releasing such information, if all of it hasn't been already?
(3) Documents and other evidence of Saddam's Terrorist Training Camps. Klein says, "there is strong evidence as well that elements of the Special Republican Guard ran terrorist training camps..." Of course, we already knew that from Stephen Hayes' excellent reporting in the Weekly Standard. Interestingly, corroboration for Hayes' reporting on Saddam's terror training camps is coming from a source who is not at all friendly to the Bush administration or the Iraq war. This should make it even more difficult for critics to simply dismiss Hayes' reporting out-of-hand. [Full disclosure: As many of you are aware, I'm sure, I have co-written several pieces with Hayes.]
It is about time the evidence of Saddam's terrorist training camps was released to the public. More to come later, but this should give you a good start. This information should not be withheld from the American public.
posted by Thomas Joscelyn at 10:06 AM
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